Did some math re: that big fuel spill

"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch) 09/20/2016 at 11:38 • Filed to: context

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Thought you all might be interested to see it.

Assuming an average of 294,000 gallons.

1 gallon = 131.76 MJ ofEnergy

294,000 * 131.76 = 38,737,440 MJ

Homes that could power a year = 29,480

Miles you could go in a 30 mpg car = 8,820,000 (18 round trips to the moon)

Actual trips to the moon = 1+ [Saturn V 36,880,00 MJ of energy used]

Explosive power = 9.28KT

Between this

And this

So yeah, it may be small in percent, but still a shitton of lost energy.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > HammerheadFistpunch 09/20/2016 at 11:46

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Not to mention all the refined-hydrocarbon pollution... it’s kinda a shitshow.

CB > HammerheadFistpunch 09/20/2016 at 11:48

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My thing is, people were asking how no one noticed this many gallons of oil going missing and commenters going “well shit, it wasn’t that much at one time, it would have been really difficult!”

You’re telling me that you’re expecting any loss in a sealed pipe that has no other way for oil to be removed from it? The fact that there was any deviation couldn’t have been calculated in what should be a completely sealed system?

Ash78, voting early and often > HammerheadFistpunch 09/20/2016 at 11:50

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The crazy part is that right here, about 10 miles from where it happened, hardly anyone even knows about it. There's always this weird, ironic dichotomy between local and national news. I'm just glad it didn't get into the major waterways (thanks to the drought).

HammerheadFistpunch > CB 09/20/2016 at 11:53

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This was EXACTLY my point in that article.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > CB 09/20/2016 at 11:53

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It also brings up the question regarding their attitude towards this. How can you expect any loss in a sealed system and why if you do, should I let you build a pipeline through my back yard?

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > CB 09/20/2016 at 11:56

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I feel like you have to account for some seepage out of the pipe (especially as it ages). It could just be that their tolerance for normal losses was a bit large. That or it just happened at a slow rate. It wasn’t the leaking gas that caused the availability issue, it was the shutdown of the pipeline.

*I have zero experience in transporting gasoline and am just guessing here

CB > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. 09/20/2016 at 11:56

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And then people get mad when communities or indigenous peoples go “we don’t want this near our land.”

“Well, you’re impeding process!”

No, they don’t want you shitting on their land and acting like no one could have expected there to be a spill.

jariten1781 > HammerheadFistpunch 09/20/2016 at 11:57

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Or around 31500 kcal...aka enough to run a human for ~16 days.

CB > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 09/20/2016 at 11:58

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Some seepage, sure, but at some point, maybe over the course of a month, you have to realize “okay, x barrels of oil didn’t make it here, where’s it going?” And they should be held to a higher standard with losses considered the enormous environmental impacts that can be caused by it.

HammerheadFistpunch > jariten1781 09/20/2016 at 12:03

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no...38,737,440 MJ = 9,252,278,589 Kcal

just-a-scratch > HammerheadFistpunch 09/20/2016 at 12:07

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I think you have an error where you use 38.7MJ. I'm finding a much larger value.

294000 gal spilled

Lower heating value of gasoline: approximately 116090 Btu/gal
coversion factor: 1.055 kJ/Btu
assume 60% generation efficiency
ignore other losses

294000 gal * 116090 Btu/gal * 1.055 kJ/Btu * 0.6 = 2.16E10 kJ or 2.16E7 MJ

It looks like a typo in your energy calc above. But that's an important typo. Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if someone finds fault in my calc here.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > HammerheadFistpunch 09/20/2016 at 12:07

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I love math

Also, I like that house

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > HammerheadFistpunch 09/20/2016 at 12:09

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*Sees author*

*Sees “Math”*

*click*

jariten1781 > HammerheadFistpunch 09/20/2016 at 12:11

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Yeah maths, apparently my brain ain't having it today.

HammerheadFistpunch > just-a-scratch 09/20/2016 at 12:12

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Im going on chemical energy storage. 1 gallon of gasoline has 131.76 MJ of energy. the only one I kinda fudged on was the homes, since I don’t factor in conversion losses. the others are spot on

Land_Yacht_225 > HammerheadFistpunch 09/20/2016 at 12:24

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I don’t want context...

I WANT MY GODDAMN V-POWER NITRO PLUS PREMIUM GAS BACK!

just-a-scratch > HammerheadFistpunch 09/20/2016 at 12:25

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Right. If you use a slightly different higher heating value you would be close at 38.7*10^6 MJ, not 38.7 MJ. My calc is different by using an efficiency and lower heating value. So I think there's a typo.

HammerheadFistpunch > just-a-scratch 09/20/2016 at 12:27

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well, again, i’m not using heating value. I’m using the standardized chemical energy content of gasoline. Obviously the conversion from chemical energy to useful energy (heat, motion, etc) will be way off from that number. however, for reference the Saturn V number is also based purely on energy content, so its apples to apples.

EDIT: I finally figured out what you were talking about. I fixed it. I accidentally typed 36.7 MJ, and I mean to type 38,737,440 MJ. I’ve Fixed it, thank you for the correction.

HammerheadFistpunch > jariten1781 09/20/2016 at 12:30

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not your fault, I accidentally typed 38.7 MJ instead of the correct 38737440 MJ

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > HammerheadFistpunch 09/20/2016 at 12:37

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I’m kind of work in the business that cleans up some fuel leak, and I’m wondering how they are going to clean this up. Normally we just use a big vacuum, but it’s never this much fuel. Somebody is about to have a big payday. Cleanup events are expensive, like $20k plus for a small UST leak.

HammerheadFistpunch > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 09/20/2016 at 12:38

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yup. Which begs the question once again - How are accurate leak detection methods remotely more expensive than cleanup (in PR value alone)

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > HammerheadFistpunch 09/20/2016 at 12:44

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They probably have them, someone just wasn’t doing their job.

adamftw > HammerheadFistpunch 09/20/2016 at 13:02

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I’ve installed flow meters linked to Home Automation systems that will figure out if there is more water moving through the house than the house is “asking” for for not a lot of money... obv there is an expensive Crestron system in the house already but that’s besides the point. The system will then tell a shut off valve in front of the main water valve to shut off, and voila, no more leak. This was a pretty popular option in vacation homes where pipes freezing was a possibility.

HammerheadFistpunch > adamftw 09/20/2016 at 13:07

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I need this. We’ve had more than one pipe freezing issue.

The issue here was that an icemaker waterline was incorrectly tapped from the main line BEFORE the valve and so it was never shutoff. Pretty stoked to come up that winter to find this.

That issue has been fixed but despite my best efforts to train my family on how to shut off the water...the risk still exists.

adamftw > HammerheadFistpunch 09/20/2016 at 13:40

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I’ve heard good things about this , but never used it. At the most basic level, the company I worked for would install an electric water shut off meter and/or valve (I never put this part in, I’m a 12V guy not a plumber) right after the main. If the security system was “Armed, Away” any water flow through the meter would send a signal to the home automation processor. The processor would then send the required signal to the valve to shut it.

We did do more complicated stuff with meters different pieces of equipment. For example the processor could “ask” if the sprinklers were on before shutting off the water. And it we could also compare the time of the “leak” detection to the sprinkler schedule for redundancy.

samssun > HammerheadFistpunch 09/20/2016 at 14:44

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The pipe in question is something like 55 years old. The irony of blocking new ones is it keeps very old ones running. In addition to being 50+ years behind in tech, many aren’t set up for inspection pigs to be inserted, and out of date capacity makes it harder to shut down for checks.